Curse

Master Ketsu · Feb 10, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Result: worst RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOup since Vietnam, US economy in the shitter (that's really going to bite in the coming years), US international reputation in the shitter, and Bush competing with intellectual giants like Warren Harding for the title of "worst president ever".

So how could Hillary or Obama, or McCain for that matter, possibly do any worse?

This is the way I see it.

Is Mccain a religious dolt who cant keep up the times ? Yes, he is. ( for FSM's sake the guy is against protecting net neutrality ! What a nub ! )

Can Obama really be trusted ? Probobly not. ( ROFL to anyone who thinks half his shit can actually be done the way he says it can. )

Is Hillary a stuck up self rightous ****** ? Indeed. ( BAAAWWWWWW !!! )

But are any of them even close to being as bad as Bush ?

....

........

Negative captain.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 10, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

I made a suggestion on gwonline, about how I felt prospective candidates should be advertised to registered voters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manwithtwohands
It would be nice if there were just one avenue to communicate to the voters about who you are and what you stand for and that every candidate had that one option equally. I think it would be better.

I got a funny response that then we'd actually be voting on the basis of real issues and beliefs!
I know the poster who responded was saying it made sense, but sadly pointed out that most registered voters don't care unless it's sensationalized.

The current system is more about flash and not about substance.

ensoriki · Feb 10, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Eh, blaming the presidents is weak.

You know back in my day... when we didn't like how something was going.
We took over the government.

Don't like what happens if Obama,Hillary, or Huckabee are president....overthrow!!

anyways tax cuts are not always great you know

Terraban · Feb 10, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Huckabee are president....overthrow!!

lol....

You forgot Ralph Nader

Dante the Warlord · Feb 10, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

I personally wish that Bloomberg, mayor of NYC for those of you who don't know, will run for president soon... I don't really like ANY of these candidates that much. I would rather pick the best man (or woman) instead of picking the least worst candidate. Plus I think that some of the candidates particularly Obama and Hillary, are striving not for the good of the country but rather for individual glory, so that they can get their name written in history books.

Unfortunately the entire race, as someone said before, is very commercially driven and whoever has the most money to put up ads and influence the media will win, instead of the less rich, qualified people.

Just my 2 cents and it doesn't matter anyways since i can't vote during this election 17 during this election

.. I just hope everything turns around for the best since this stupid economy is soo bad that ive been contemplating on moving out of the country to another country where the economy is more stable(at least maybe for a while then come back). Plus our money is worth less/equal to the canadian dollar, which used to be worth much more a while ago...

freaky naughty · Feb 10, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

EDIT: Oh, and you guys can perhaps explain to me how tax cuts which are not accompanied by lowered expenditure is a good thing? Tax cuts financed by loans from China and Taiwan, like the Bush tax cuts - how do you reckon they're good?

The thing is, tax-cuts are always accompanied by lower spending, and they stimulate the economy, kinda like what the federal reserve is doing now by cutting rates to avoid a recession. Cutting taxes creates an incentive for people to start new businesses and to experiment, thus creating more job opportunities, thus more money is earned by citizens, thus the government yields more taxes despite taxes being cut. Look at Reagan's presidency and see how tax-cuts affected our economy back then. Final reason is, the lower taxes are the more money my dad makes and keeps. Family comes before complete strangers on welfare I always say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Can Obama really be trusted ? Probobly not. ( ROFL to anyone who thinks half his shit can actually be done the way he says it can. )

Rofl, the only words in his vocabulary are "change" and "unite" just your average liberal dreamer.

Winterclaw · Feb 10, 2008, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

McCain isn't? Doesn't he support reinstating the draft?

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get shipped off to a country that we don't belong in just to get myself killed.

Two things:

1. The US has been lucky that we have been able to maintain a volunteer army. Some nations require everyone to serve time. Even a draft would be better than everyone serving. Assuming it happens. I think it'd be unlikely because it'd cause a lot of people in congress to lose their jobs in two years and McCain would be unelectable for his second term.

2. In the US there's something called conscientious objection where if your name comes up and you absolutely refuse to go, you can do community service instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freaky Naughty

I never really understood how the draft was constitutional. Forcing someone to fight in a war doesn't strike me as "freedom." However mostly people who are drafted work in intelligence, as medics, or another non-combat position.

I don't think there's any place in the constitution that says a draft is illegal. Remember, just because we have a lot of freedoms, doesn't mean we have absolute freedom. Plus there is a requirement in the constitution to provide for defense of the nation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

You know back in my day... when we didn't like how something was going.
We took over the government.

Sometimes I really think the US is edging closer to that point.

Terraban · Feb 10, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Two things:

1. The US has been lucky that we have been able to maintain a volunteer army. Some nations require everyone to serve time. Even a draft would be better than everyone serving. Assuming it happens. I think it'd be unlikely because it'd cause a lot of people in congress to lose their jobs in two years and McCain would be unelectable for his second term.

If the country was in need, sure I guess I would be ok with a draft...

The problem I have with it now is, we are in a "war" that we shouldn't even be in in the first place. Not to mention that McCain seems to want to start more conflicts.

lakatz · Feb 10, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by OI-812

Warning: politics.

Both Democratic candidates are going to have to overcome a long-standing status quo of white males in the White House. Way to handicap ourselves in the middle of what is a really damn important election. Progress is good, yes, but this makes me rather nervous. Their most likely opponent, McCain, is IMO a serious threat. Hell, back in 2000, I would have voted for him - a remarkably moderate Republican in a time of rapture-right and red-state blue-state polarization. Nowadays, McCain is shedding some of the moderate views and stances that once made him such a plausible contender for the title of "unifier". (Probably because after he lost the Republican primary way back in 2000 the GOP and their status quo bent him over a table.) And things are being said about McCain, that he was partially responsible for the ball being dropped on veteran's rights issues (I'm still having a hard time believing it, as he IS a veteran who served with distinction). Obama wants a faster pullout from Iraq than Hillary, but it has been said that a hasty retreat would cost MORE and be more difficult for the armed forces in Iraq. Now, if he were elected, it's not like he could FORCE such a rapid pullout, as he'd have to deal with the Houses on the matter, so that point may be moot.

Anyone else here feeling like we're in for a rough next 4 years?

McCain hasn't always been a moderate. He's been a staunch supporter of the invasion of Iraq from the minute Bush started pushing his plan on the country. And he has not changed his stance in the slightest in the many years since the war started. His mantra now is "We will never surrender." We will never surrender to what??? We are the aggressor. We started it. Yeah... he's scary.

placebo overdose · Feb 10, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

i dont care about democrats or republicans its what they say and what they are going to do
i think this election is too centered around this
one end is the right wingers who understand that bush largely was a mistake but they still have the ability to help(i believe this)
the other end is a bunch of left wingers and unaligned who are for change thus being liberal and voting for a women or black man.(i have faith in this side too if they think outside of race/gender)
the other day i heard a pair of black women arguing over who they are going to vote for not once did they bring up actions or leadership or plans of the candidates it was an argument between black man or white woman and thats all it was and all this is becoming with all the media pressure on the new "face" of America.

Terraban · Feb 10, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

That image wins.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 10, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Oh my goodness Terraban.
This is so off-topic, but your avatar has made me want to go out and buy Devil Dice and start playing it again.

**cosyfiep** · Feb 10, 2008, 08:54 AM // 08:54

sigh
I think I will just move back to japan.....it was easier there.
or maybe Canada is hiring?............

Redfeather1975 · Feb 10, 2008, 09:36 AM // 09:36

You can come to Canada cosyfiep.
But you have to love to drink beer and watch hockey.
omg, I just realized I'm not really a Canadian then.

Onarik Amrak · Feb 10, 2008, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

You're thinking of rate cuts, but tax-cuts sometimes increase inflation. In Reagan's term he drastically cut taxes and interest rates and the economy boomed. Reagonomics pretty much proves that a democrat government weakens our economy.

Ah, yes. I'm not terribly knowledgeable in this field.

______________________________________

I remember hearing some people are fearful that if Obama is elected, he may be assassinated.

Good ol' rednecks. What'll you do without them?

druggedchimp · Feb 10, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Expect tax cuts and subsidies regardless of who gets elected.

We're in a recession.

Winterclaw · Feb 10, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

The problem I have with it now is, we are in a "war" that we shouldn't even be in in the first place.

Blame Saddam for pretending to have WMDs at the wrong time... he thought Bush was only going to launch a few missles like Clinton did. Bush isn't right on a lot of things, but I think sticking with the war in Iraq was the correct course of action.

Any nation that does not have the will to win a drawn out war with relatively few casualties has its future in jepordy.

lakatz · Feb 10, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Blame Saddam for pretending to have WMDs at the wrong time... he thought Bush was only going to launch a few missles like Clinton did. Bush isn't right on a lot of things, but I think sticking with the war in Iraq was the correct course of action.

Any nation that does not have the will to win a drawn out war with relatively few casualties has its future in jepordy.

Relatively few casualties?

In Basra, the women are being murdered now for not wearing headscarves.

American deaths since the invasion began - almost 4000
American wounded since the invasion began - (est) up to 100,000
Iraqi casualties caused by the war - (est) 1,173,743
Displaced Iraqis (est) 4,000,000
Displaced Iraqis living in countries that don't want them - 2,000,000
Displaced Iraqis still in Iraq but displaced nonetheless in camps - 2,000,000

As if the cost of lives from this invasion isn't bad enough, the fiscal cost is astronomical - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11880954/

And the impact on our economy? Can you say recession... we're in it! Besides the war, Bush's tax cuts killed our economy as well. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...gRXTwD8UMCQAO1

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

You're only fooling yourself. Denial is a dangerous place to live Winterclaw. And it is the height of irresponsibility to blame someone else for one's own folly. The blame game does not solve problems. It only exacerbates them. Saddam wasn't pretending to have WMD, and the weapons inspectors confirmed he didn't have them. There was no evidence... Bush cooked the books to get his war... period. That's been well established for a very long time now.

freaky naughty · Feb 11, 2008, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Blame Saddam for pretending to have WMDs at the wrong time... he thought Bush was only going to launch a few missles like Clinton did. Bush isn't right on a lot of things, but I think sticking with the war in Iraq was the correct course of action.

Any nation that does not have the will to win a drawn out war with relatively few casualties has its future in jepordy.

Who sold Saddam weapons in the 1990's? Why, Bush's dad of course. We sold Iraq weapons in their war against Iran so Iraq could destroy a country that greatly opposed us. The war ended in a draw, and Iraq got to keep their shiny new weapons. Saddam could control his radical Muslim people, therefore we should have left him in power. I couldn't care less if he used terror to keep them in line, at least he kept them in line. Bush however is an idiot and didn't anticipate that toppling saddam would cause the Shi'ites to rebel.

I'd much rather Iraqis die under Saddam's rule than Americans die under an idiot's mistake call me cruel but our boys are not worth risking over Bush's ego. We're in Iraq now though, and our puppet government in Iraq isn't strong enough so we're gonna have to stay in Iraq to keep stability for a long time.

Winterclaw · Feb 11, 2008, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

American deaths since the invasion began - almost 4000

If you look at all the other major wars we've fought in, we've lost a lot more than 4,000 in every one of them. In WWI, there were days where one side or the other lost more than that. Days. Not 6-or-whatever-years periods. Historically speaking, for the US's losses as bad as they are, aren't that bad.

Quote:

Iraqi casualties caused by the war - (est) 1,173,743

That seems extermely high and it seems unlikely we'll be able to get a real figure one way or the other at this juncture in time. Nonetheless if the we had pulled out before the surge, it is extremly likely that whatever the figure was would have been higher and Iraq would be no closer to living in a peaceful democracy. The US went in for whatever reason, justified or not, now it's their duty to give the Iraqi people every possible chance to live freely. A pull out now would mean that all the people that died, likely died for nothing.

Let's assume that your figure of 1 million iraqis is correct. Do you to have Iraqi go back into the political situation it has been in for years just waiting for another similar war to happen after all that blood has been shed? Do you want al qaeda or all those iranian fighters to flock back into the place after so many have died for freedom? I don't. Do you want america to have to go back again in another 10-20 years and another few thousand to die?

Blood spilt can't be undone. The past is in the books with only the present and the future to be changed. Some people think the best option is it stay the course so we have some ability to postively affect the outcome. I am one of those people. If we leave too soon, we have no say in the matter. If we leave too soon, and things turn for the worst, all those people would have died in vain. If we leave too soon, we lose the ability to give the Iraqis the best chance for a bright future.

I think that a decrease in forces will have to happen soon, but a pull out is a crazy idea. We need to leave them to stand on their own, but not leave them standing in chaos or tyranny.

As for the financial costs, they are bad but if we didn't spend it there, Uncle Sow would have found another way to squander all of that money.